Call was at around 9:30pm on 11/14/25.
E: Hello?
Josh Rudd: Okay. Perfect. Sorry. I was having connection issues.
Josh Rudd: Hey. I’m Josh. I don’t know that we’ve met in person before. Have we?
E: We might have. Probably not.
Josh Rudd: Okay. What was your name again? Is it E?
E: Yeah.
Josh Rudd: Okay. Perfect. So, yeah, I I I would like to, you know, start off with just, like, hearing sort of from your perspective, you know, what’s going on, what what what your concerns are, what your thoughts are, all that. You know, where you’d like to see this what you’d like to get from this conversation, basically.
E: Well, I just wanted to make it aware to people in DAWC since DACW is, like, basically FRSO, that, like, people there in the leadership were, like, involved in covering up sexual assault. I think people should be, like, aware of that, and I’m, like, really concerned about that. And, also, just, like, some of, like, the other harm that has come to, like, the people who are mentioned in, like, the document. I don’t know if you read it.
Josh Rudd: Oh, so I have a couple things, but what are what what do you mean in particular?
E: Like, Dan’s sort of, like, weird behaviors, especially towards, like, younger women and, like, other fem presenting people and, like, how he, like, encouraged that one person to drink until she had alcohol poisoning. I think that’s, like, really, like, concerning, and I don’t know. I just, like like, if I was in an org like that or, like, org who those people were, like, in charge of me or, like, in charge of keeping me and my, like, people safe, I would, like, want to know. So I was like, I guess, like, people should just know that. Right?
Josh Rudd: So, I mean, there’s a couple things here.
E: Yeah. Go ahead.
Josh Rudd: That I just wanna, like, make sure to say is that, like like, FRSO and DAWC, like, are are completely different organizations. So, like, there are people in DAWC that are in a bunch of different orgs. Like, there’s people who are in CodePINK and in JVP and in PYM and in FRSO and in DSA and in RRC. But, like, none of those orgs control DAWC. DAWC is, you know, completely run by its members.
So, like, that I think that’s a really important part. In terms of you know, I I’ve I’ve seen this document.
E: Have you read the whole thing? I I know it’s a long read.
Josh Rudd: Yeah. I I had a chance to look over it a few days ago.
And yeah. I I mean, so are there, like, particular points that you think are, like, important to talk about? Like, you know, what, I I wanna hear, like, where you’re coming from, what you’re wanting to see happen.
E: Like yeah. Exactly.
Well, I mean, I I already said, like, the sexual assault cover up is really worrying to me and just, like, behaviors of numerous well, people who are in DAWC, and FRSO I guess, and NLGs, like, behaviors towards, like, fems, women, and younger people. And I just want, I don’t know, like, the org to take some accountability for that because, like, the those are, like, its members, its public facing leadership, etcetera.
Josh Rudd: Okay.
So I had a chance to look through the document. I I don’t know sort of, like, all the context surrounding everything, honestly. I I saw it pop up in the feed, uh, a few days ago. So, like, I I can speak from the DAWC perspective because, like, I I’m not gonna be, like, able to speak for FRSO. Like, I can point you towards you know, I don’t know if he was able to speak on the behalf of them.
Josh Rudd: But from the DAWC perspective, like, where we’re coming from is we absolutely want to address, like, concrete material harm. And so, like, I I think that that’s an important part to sort of investigate and kind of go into. Um, in regards to, like, the post itself, you know, this is something that’s happened before with other groups that are in coalition with us, like PYM. And this is something that we have as a point of unity within DAWC from our founding, which is that we follow the Saint Paul principles. And so, like, these kinds of, like, public call out posts, you know, just that that’s not how DAWC organizes.
I understand that, like, other orgs might operate differently, and that that is what it is. But, like, as a point of unity that we have, because we have so many different groups that we work with in coalition, we’re focused on building, like ultimately, our number one goal here is to, like, fight back against imperialism, which is this monstrous, horrible beast that is, you know, killing people. And so, like, that’s our focus.
E: Well, I think that, like, imperialism also resonates in, like, certain behavior patterns that we see, like, internally here, like, in The US. You know? And, like, definitely, like, increased misogyny and, like, violence against women is, like, a form of imperialism, so we have a responsibility to fight it here as well.
Josh Rudd: I absolutely agree. For sure. We’re definitely united on that.
E: And then and-
Josh Rudd: Like, I think we’re, like, fighting against -
E: Can you talk about, like, what happened in, like, with these, like, other statements? Sorry. I’m, like, not that aware.
Josh Rudd: So we made a post in the DAWC announcements, months ago, a while back, when there was, you know, posts publicly going around condemning PYM.
E: Oh, what was that about? Sorry. I’m, like, new, but I just, like, saw this, and I was, like, really worried.
Josh Rudd: Oh, I saw what?
E: Like, the the FRSO accountability thing.
Josh Rudd: Oh, okay. Um, I mean, so the it it was you know, you you can scroll back if you’re interested, um, in sort of the the full details around that. I don’t have that in front of me. But there was, you know, some public condemnation of another org, and there was asked for us to publicly condemn, um, other orgs in our movement. And we we said that that is just not something that DAWC is not going to be engaged in, like, public callouts.
That’s just, like, fundamentally something that we’ve agreed to from the beginning that, you know, that’s not how we are choosing to organize.
E: Okay. Can I ask why? Like, I think, like, things like this should be, like, public, don’t you? Like, I don’t know. I just think people have a right to know and to, like, protect themselves from harm.
Josh Rudd: I mean, so, you know, since the beginning, DAWC has agreed to follow the St Paul principles, which, like, that that is what we have, like, fundamentally agreed to. And, like, I guess, you know, other words don’t always operate in that same way. But from our perspective, what we’ve agreed to is that it is not productive for us to tear down others within this movement and to do the work of, essentially, you know, the state and FBI and these, you know, fascist elements. Elements. You You know?
Like, we don’t need to be doing that work and, like, tearing apart the anti imperialist movement.
E: Well, I think, like, harassment and, like, abuse is what tears apart anti imperialist movements.
Josh Rudd: And, like, I I agree that, like, those are things that absolutely need to be rooted out. And, like, those are things that need to be handled internally and rooted out within the movement. And when there are cases of, like, actual abuse and, like, actual harm that’s being done. Like, that is an exception to the Saint Paul principle that, like, knows in there that we agreed to as well.
E: Yeah. So, like, there’s, like, concrete evidence of, like, abuse and SA cover up in the document. So I think, like, that is an exception. Right?
Josh Rudd: I didn’t see that. I mean, what are you what are you talking about specifically?
E: Well, I I don’t remember the guy’s name. Like, Mick something admitted to, like, covering up, like, sexual assault and, like, the whole cover up thing, like, on video.
Josh Rudd: I mean so Mick is not a part of DAWC, or involved in any way with DAWC. So I I just…
E: Oh, alright. I guess.
I see. I’m just, like, concerned because, like, Mick is, like, a big a part of FRSO. But, like, again, I I didn’t know that DAWC and FRSO were separate. I thought they were because there’s, like, a lot of, like, similar type thing. Like, what is, like, like, the relationship between the two orgs?
Like, is the is there, like, a lot of DAWC leadership that are in FRSO?
Josh Rudd: So like I said, I mean, it’s there’s different organizations. Like, there’s RRC. There’s DSA. There’s FRSO. There’s NLG, Code Pink, JVP.
Like, all these different organizations are people that you know, people are involved in multiple things, but that doesn’t mean that, like, it is connected to any of those organizations aside the fact that we’re, like, in coalition with these groups that we work with.
E: Oh, okay. And then, sorry. I’m just, like, lot on my mind right now.
But it like, you’re in the document as well. Like, do you, like, deny anything that happened in there?
Because there’s, like, texts where you, like, say some and, like, screenshots where, like, you and some of you, like, the other DAWC people say, like, some odd things.
Josh Rudd: Not to my knowledge. Didn’t read or lying. Josh is documented in the transcript responding flippantly to the Dallas Student Unit’s resignation.
E: Like, not to your knowledge that you’re in there?
Josh Rudd: I haven’t seen that. What are you talking about in specific?
E: I mean, I can find the screenshot. Hold on. But, like, you’re yeah. Sorry. I have to, like, control find.
The document’s really long. Sorry.
But, yeah, I remember seeing your name. You’re Josh R. Right?
Josh Rudd: Yeah.
E: Okay. Like, there-
Josh Rudd: I do need to head off soon.
E: Oh, sorry. There’s just, like, a thing where it was, like I think it was you and, like, Rick talking about, like, when oh my god. What is her name? Ziyan? When she, like, wrote those statements about how she, like, felt abandoned by the movement, and you guys were saying, like, some things about her that were, like, oh, like, she’s trying to wreck organizing in Dallas.
Josh Rudd: I’m not sure what you’re talking about. Oh, wait. About who?
E: About Ziyan. Is that her name?
Josh Rudd: I don’t know her. That was a long time ago. I don’t quite remember conversations around those.
E: I guess. But, I mean, you did say you read the document, but, like, you are in there along with Jo, I think, and Rick. I don’t know. I would maybe take a reread.
Josh Rudd: Is there something you’re wanting to, like, see from this? Or, like-
E: I mean, I guess I would just, like, want, like, DAWC and FRSO and all the orgs, like, involved to take responsibility.
Josh Rudd: To take oh, I mean, I’m just trying to, like, see what what what is it that you’re wanting to take responsibility for? There’s been, like we talked about a lot of different things. Like, what what is it that you’re, like the what what are are the concerns that you’re seeing, you know, those kinds of things?
E: Like Like like, local leadership taking, like, accountability for, like, being, like, involved in, like, sexual assaults, cover up, and, like, perpetuating harms towards, like, younger fems and, like, women. Even if they weren’t direct Oh my god. I got dropped my phone.
Like, directly involves, like just, like, being like, oh, like, my failure to, like, perceive the situation correctly or, like, check-in on the community. Like because everybody is, like, complicit in their own way, so I guess, like, just recognizing that and, like, taking accountability.
Josh Rudd: I mean, I am a little bit confused exactly. You know? Like so DAWC has not been involved to any of my knowledge or of any allegations. Like, I haven’t seen any allegations whatsoever that, like, DAWC has been involved with any of those things. Didn’t read. Jo and Kai, two leading members of DAWC, are named in the document.
E: Okay. Well, so the doc makes it I mean, the document makes it sound like that because it’s like or I guess, like, a lot of people in DAWC are in FRSO. So maybe it was, like, FRSO members who are in DAWC did things. But I think also, like, being, yeah, I guess, like, the DAWC even DAWC just making a statement. Like, the DAWC people who are in FRSO, like, were involved in this.
And then just, like, taking accountability for
Josh Rudd: that. Yeah. What what is it specifically that you’re
E: I mean, sexual assault cover up.
Josh Rudd: What do you mean by the cover up?
E: The cover up for member Justin pond- Dustin Ponder. Sorry. And, like, again, I would say, like, you are in this document.
Josh Rudd: Dustin Ponder like, the, like, the that’s not who’s ever been in or, like, at all, any way connected to DAWC.
E: Yes. But members that are in DAWC are involved in covering that up. So.
Josh Rudd: And, like, I also, like no one in DAWC has been connected with Dustin at all in any way at any time in any point. So, like, I’m I see what you’re saying about sort of these things that are being brought up about a different organization and a different place and different people, but, like, I’m I’m wondering what DAWC’s sort of, what your
E: It’s named, like, at the beginning of this moment that, like, Jo is involved in perpetuating a cover up. Right? And Jo’s, like, in DAWC. I know that. I’ve met them.
Josh Rudd: Hasn’t like, Jo doesn’t have any connection or anything whatsoever with any of these people. So, like, I’m wondering, like, what, like, materially you’re wanting to see from that because, like, Joe hasn’t been connected. This isn’t isn’t even alleged to be connected. Like like, what is the sort of-
E: I don’t know then, I guess. Like, I was just sharing information from, like, what I read in the document, and I just, like, was like, oh, like, people should be aware of this because, like. Yeah. I don’t know.
Josh Rudd: I mean, I like I said, I I can point you towards someone who, like, can maybe speak towards FRSO, but, like
E: Alright. We can we can do that. Like, I just don’t know
Josh Rudd: Yeah. Exactly.
E: That would be helpful, I think.
Josh Rudd: I’m not connected in any way.
E: And then, yeah, I just wanted to make people, like, aware because I I sent it in other channels as well. Like, well, like, other servers and stuff. Stuff. I just wanted, like, to make sure people know what’s going on.
Josh Rudd: Okay. I mean, yeah, if there’s, like, any material concerns you’re wanting to see from DAWC, it’s just, like, we’re not gonna be, you know, condemning or doxxing or calling out any, like, individuals or organizations. That is, like, a part of our point of unity that we’ve all agreed to and that, like, everyone who signs into the DAWC Discord server, like, agrees to through, you know, reading the points of unity and clicking.
So it’s like that’s something that’s, like, long seated, and that’s not going to change regardless, you know, unless, like, DAWC membership takes that up as a point that, like, we want to change our sort of founding documents. But, like, that’s been a consistent point that, like, we wanna focus on fighting imperialism.
We wanna focus on, you know, actually, like, building up a movement that is able to have real power and take care of one another and, you know, build up this fight against centrism. And and we’re not here to just tear down and destroy things.
E: Alright. I mean, yeah, if you could get me in contact with that person at FRSO, that would be great.
Josh Rudd: The the Instagram would be a good place. That’s how I’ve gotten in contact with other groups. But Alright. I just yeah. The Instagram handle.
E: Okay. Thank you.
Josh Rudd: Yep. Bye. Bye.